Stew Redwine (00:00):
Hit it. Ad Infinitum is the only podcast solely focused on audio

Intro Announcer (00:04):
Ads, advertising

Stew Redwine (00:05):
The creative who make them and are the latest thinking that informs them how the space is evolving. And my favorite part, a roundup of recent audio ads and analysis by yours truly Ad campaign Stu Redwine, VP Creative at Oxford Road and each episode's guest. This is season two, episode nine of ad infinitum and this episode's title is Scrum X McKinna, discussing AI generated audio blending seamlessly with the real thing reshaping how we create and experience audio advertising. This title draws from Jean Boar's Simulacra and Simulation where copies create new realities and the ancient Greek Deus ex Maa where divine intervention resolves impossible dilemmas in the realm of generative ai. This fusion becomes the engine driving innovation in audio content platforms like Wonder craft.ai in cos spec AI futuri spot on and Aho exemplify this shift. They all produce high quality AI generated audio ads that mimic human creativity.

(01:04):
But research shows that these scra are met with mixed reactions. Report by the Verge highlighted that while AI generated voices, especially clones are technically impressive, they often elicit feelings of discomfort or unease among listeners due to their uncanny resemblance to human speech without the warmth and imperfections that characterize genuine human voices. And even upon writing this, this feels dated. The technology is evolving so quickly, but this phenomenon known as the uncanny valley suggests that as AI generated voices become more lifelike, they can provoke a negative response unless carefully managed. For example, Odyssey's Innovation Tracker from June, 2024 found that people are more than twice as likely to trust a human voice over AI generated content with consumers expressing greater comfort with audio ads crafted by humans compared to those produced by ai. However, gen Z are more accepting of AI generated voices simply experiencing them as part of everyday life online.

(02:00):
But a recent article titled TikTok May Soon Use AI to Clone Your Voice because nothing is real anymore. Makes me think about the core issue or question, which is what is real and why does knowing what is real matter. So in this new landscape, scrum X Makina isn't just a theoretical concept, it's a practical reality shaping the future of audio advertising. The machine is no longer just a tool, it's a creator of new realities that must be carefully calibrated to resonate with different audiences. As AI continues to evolve, so too will our understanding of what it means to create and connect in the world of audio for real. And that is why our guest this week is Oscar Sar, former CO of Acast and before that at Spotify and iHeart. And he is co-founder of Wonder craft.ai. Welcome Oscar.

Oskar Serrander (02:49):
Thank you for having me, Stu. Excited to be here.

Stew Redwine (02:52):
Excited to have you here because we're recording this on Monday, August 5th and just this morning I was listening to James Lin's PO News, which I do pretty much every morning on my walk with my dog Maverick, my main man Maverick. And I heard the mention of Wonder craft.ai and I was like, oh yeah, that's right. Today I'm talking to Oscar and it's their launch day quote. Wonder Craft has launched Ad Studio which writes, translates and produces studio quality audio ads. It joins tools like Inco Spec, ai, Futuri, spot on, and aos. So Oscar, how is launch day going? We have a look off.

Oskar Serrander (03:27):
It's going well. Thank you Stu. How was Maverick's reaction to it? Did he hear it at all? I'm curious about that.

Stew Redwine (03:33):
No, that's a great test. That takes me back to the original Terminator. It's like the dogs could identify the Terminators, like I need to play him some clone voice commands and see if he freaks it right. He's like, no, no rah, next time I

Oskar Serrander (03:47):
Think he like you. But yeah, it is going really well. Thank you. It's been a hectic day with good press and obviously lots of great conversations with our existing partners have been testing it for a while and lots of new ones. We had a live stream for our community of Wonder Crafters this morning, which was uh, a new thing for us And <laugh>, I enjoyed that very much. It was a bit wonky of a production, but we had a good time.

Stew Redwine (04:08):
I mean it's just awesome. I've gotta say that It's incredible to hear There's the example that James Cridlin had that he played. We'll just play a sample of it now.

Wondercraft Example Voice (04:17):
Indulge in Coffee that cares at Ever Bean Coffee, your sustainable sanctuary in Williamsburg.

Stew Redwine (04:30):
So that's just a sample from James k Lin's pod news this morning of an ad produced with Wonder Craft ai. I mean you heard me in the whole setup talking about the uncanny valley and the difference between a human voice and a clone voice or synthetic voice. It seems to me like even in the time that it's taken since I wrote that, but sometimes it feels like just in the time that it's taken since somebody heard me say that like 60 seconds ago and now, like the technology is getting better that much quickly. The clone voices really are at this point of almost being completely und discernible, aren't they?

Oskar Serrander (05:03):
Yeah, they really are. And I agree with you, the progress is going quite fast and we're putting a lot of effort into making it really available to creatives to basically draft and sketch with audio, which is kind of a new term that we are using for this. And a lot of the use cases is just that we want audio creation to be a little bit more prominent and accessible in the creative process for brands and creatives that agencies and yeah, wonder Craft is a really fun studio to play around with. If you are a lover of great copy and writing, it really gives you an idea to a chance to really draft and color it, if you will, with different characters. And right now the delivery of lines is perfect. I mean we consider ourselves a hundred percent on par with studio productions in the sense that you can use what we call parrot mode, which gives you a hundred percent precision in how your AI voices delivered lines.

(05:54):
If you want it sarcastically or if you want it delivered with a certain intonation or tone, you can do that. Now we made that available just in May, so that's quite early. The bigger release for us today is our timeline editor to really make it easy for brands and creative teams to edit audio ads to really fit the the formats that they're going for. So you can have precise 30 seconds that round speed up voices, add music and sound effects and all in a very easy tool. So yeah, it's been a big day for us and it's happening quite quickly. So we're not stopping here. Obviously this is still very early beginning of a long journey as we see it, to make the audio industry better with good creation tools.

Stew Redwine (06:29):
That is all great to hear and it's fun having you on today for launch day. I remember when we were first talking about watercraft.ai and the way that you've talked about it elsewhere is like it's Canva for audio, which I just love that because it's so obvious. And yet I feel worth saying that audio isn't visual. There's nothing to see, there's nothing to like, you know, whether it's video or design digital, it's like you can grab a piece of paper and a pencil or a dry erase board and pin and boom, you can give somebody an idea of what you're thinking visually, like really quickly. Or if it's words, you know, you can say it or you can write it, but like audio, it's harder. And you guys have removed a lot of that friction and I just even like the tightness of that description of that it's Canva for audio as there's other folks in the space. Like what is it about Wonder craft.ai? Like what sets Wonder Craft apart from Inco spec ai, Futuri spot on a thoses and others?

Oskar Serrander (07:23):
I mean, I don't wanna sound obnoxious or arrogant here, but I actually don't know much about those companies. Two of them I haven't heard of before. Maybe that's on my fault for not doing a ton of digging in the market, but, and I haven't seen how they really perform, but I'm happy that more people are in this space. I come from a world where I really think that that inspires more innovation and optionality for people and it also gives validation. There is a real problem out there that needs a solution. So I'm happy with that. So I can't really answer what sets us apart, but what I can say is that what we are focusing on is really making it, you know, an easy to use tool for creatives and it's easy to get started the user experience, we put a lot of effort into design.

(08:04):
Funny enough, we actually hired one of the first lead designers at Canva that came on board Wonder Craft in June. He's now spearheading our product design. And it's a joy to have him on and really focus on what is a big part of our philosophy of building product, which is you need to make it enjoyable and easy to work with and great products put a lot of effort in design in my opinion. And I think that sets us apart 'cause I haven't seen many of the other brother products, but yeah, that's really it. Canva for audio kind of describes it well. We want to do what they did for the graphic industry, which really makes it more accessible to independent designers, et cetera. But also kind of raises the bar for design in general and making it more available for ad platforms and social media platforms.

(08:48):
And wherever you, you kind of need that design work, right? But with audio you really are so alone with the words and sound effects and how you really build a narrative and I think that scares a lot of creatives. So we kind of want to democratize the access to audio for creatives to really have more fun with it. I hope this is gonna make the audio industry a lot better. 'cause at the end of the day, I think it just needs to have more creators and more brands who are leading into audio first to make it audio industry and specifically podcasting I think is incredibly undervalued. So this is my attempt after so many years in the industry to try to create some good value for creators out there.

Stew Redwine (09:23):
Well and I think you really are, and it was good to hear you say, 'cause there's different approaches out there. It's like taking a look at a market and sizing up all the competition and then building my designs based off of them. And it's like you're like, Hey, I'm so head down and so focused on making this good for a need that's very much in the marketplace. Like I don't even know who some of these competitors are. And then I love your positive outlook on it as well that like, well that's actually a good sign. There are these people I didn't even know about because that means that we're onto something and solving this. And I think you absolutely are. You know, I mean it audio is such a strange craft because it is not immediately visual, which again is obvious but worth stating. It's like I think of there's this old legend or story of this monk that's trying to get his disciples to understand something you know about this spiritual point.

(10:08):
And he asked them all if they can think of what the smell of a rose is, right? Do you know, can you identify the smell of a rose and like remember it and think of what that, yeah. And he's like, okay, describe it to me. And it's like, ugh. Like that becomes very diff. And I think in audio it's kind of like the sound of an airplane. Okay, the sound of a jet engine. Okay, the sound of a drag race, okay, the sound of a quietly closing door, like the sound of the ocean, the sound of cicadas in the summer. It's like we can all hear, I can hear it like even as soon as I say it, but then it's like, okay, now describe that to me. It's like B it gets very challenging. So I can say, and I will say like stacking up all the different options that are out there. Wonder craft. I like the premise Canva for audio. So right there, like I trust that a lot tight economy of words, like you're putting your money where your mouth is, it makes me wanna trust you right there. Wonder craft looks cool, it's easy to use and in no time you can be going from your idea for a spot to a finished spot. And not only that, transcreate it into different languages as well. So my hat's off to you in taking this moment basically to say congrats on the launch today.

Oskar Serrander (11:17):
Thank you sir. Appreciate that. That's great to hear. Obviously. And I'd be very sad if it wasn't the case 'cause I've been living all these challenges and problems throughout my career, right? Even though when I was starting at Spotify in 2009, I was an agency side before that and I joined Spotify in Stockholm, Sweden and everyone wanted to work with us. You know what's not cool about just music streaming and brands wanted to be on board, how do we get on there? But all they could send us was banner ads and you know, their display stuff. You are like, no, we gotta think audio. So that really started the whole journey of, in this realization that audio is neglected many times in the creative process because of, I think many different reasons, right? I think people listening can list a number of them independent on what reason, I just think audio deserves a little bit better. And I, I'm looking at the industry now and I, I still see the same thing so many years past that early realization, right? So I feel like watercraft has been something I had in my back pocket. It's something I, this needs to be fixed sometime in the future. And yeah, last summer that was the convergence of the idea and technology being in a place where you can actually make this happen.

Stew Redwine (12:20):
I love that so much. And I'm even thinking of our conversation so far that it's like we're not even talking about the AI piece of it, we're really talking about the solution, the fact that it's a great solution created by great people that understand the problem and the AI is just kind of like, oh yeah, I mean that's a whole piece of it, which we'll talk about in just a bit. But let's jump in right now and actually grade some ads. So what we do is we look at top advertisers in radio series XM on podcast. So Magellan AI as put together the top podcast advertisers from June, 2024. And what they do is they analyze the trailing month's data to uncover the top podcast advertisers by spend and change in spend. And the top four spenders in June, 2024, according to magellan.ai, we're better help Toyota, Amazon, and Mint Mobile for a combined spend of almost $20 million. The top spenders list uses Magellan's proprietary model informed by the most downloaded podcasts. So that's what we're gonna be listening to. Alright, so let's jump into this. Oscar, you ready to grade some ads?

Oskar Serrander (13:25):
I'm so ready. This is gonna be fun.

Stew Redwine (13:26):
Yeah, if we're not having fun, what is the point that is obvious Oscar, that you are my kind of crazy. So here we go. First one is from Better Help.

Betterhelp Ad Announcer Voice (13:36):
Everyone knows Therapy is great for solving problems, but getting Therapy has its own problems too. Like finding the right therapist fitting into their schedule and of course the cost, well Better Help can solve those problems. It's totally online and built around your schedule. It's surprisingly affordable too. Connect with a credentialed therapist by phone, video, or online chat all from the comfort of your home. Visit Better help.com to learn more and save 10% on your first month. That's better help HELP.

Stew Redwine (14:07):
Okay, here we go. So given that spot of listen there, what are your immediate reactions?

Oskar Serrander (14:13):
I mean my immediate reaction, was that an AI voice or was it a real person? I'm half joking, I'm assuming it was a real person. I don't know if Better Help is using Wonder Craft yet, but I mean having heard a lot of better Help ads, I think they are, you know, I understand why they're a big spender. Quite straightforward, very kind of even keeled read. I would say this, if this was a read that we did on Wonder Craft, I'd say like maybe I should spice it up a little bit, give it a bit of more of a hook perhaps. But as far as a podcast ad, I'm gonna say with a medium, I think there's some improvements we can do here. Stu, what do you think?

Stew Redwine (14:46):
Well, what would you give it on a scale of one Outta 10? 'cause you said medium, so is that a five or is it, are we talking more like we're in six seven Land?

Oskar Serrander (14:54):
No, but I think it's a pleasant listen, right? If this is in a podcast, which I'm assuming we're talking about, I think the attention is there, but I think I've heard better, better Help Ads. This is not a dig on any host who actually did this host read lovely. But I would say in terms of creativity and maybe getting me interested, I'd say it's a six.

Stew Redwine (15:13):
All right, you gave it a six. And what we use for grading ads at Oxford Road is audio lytics and listeners of Ad infinitum are familiar with that. So you're not off base Audio Lytics gave it a score of 72%. You know, our target for all in market creative is a 90. So I would say like it's hanging right in there with your six where it's like there's some things that can be done to improve the performance of this spot and the score of this spot. But let's do this. What I like to do is at least do two 'cause then we have a couple that we can compare and then we'll grade the final two. So let's go ahead and listen to the next one real quick. It is from Toyota. Here we go.

Toyota Ad Announcer Voice (15:49):
When you are in the market for a new SUV, you want a vehicle that will handle your daily commute, navigate the elements, and can adventure with ease. You need the reliability of a Toyota and the confidence that your investment will last. Why? Because after all the carpools rugged trails and weakens out, you want an SUV that still has plenty of miles left in it and holds its value for a great trade-in deal. That's where Toyota leads the pack as the number one resale value brand for 2024 according to Kelley Blue book's kbb.com. So check out the legendary redesigned Land cruiser or spacious Grand Highlander or test drive a RAV4 available in gas, hybrid and plugin hybrid models. And remember, when you choose Toyota, you are not just buying a car for today. You are investing in trade-in value for tomorrow. Visit buy a toyota.com. The official website for deals for more vehicles projected resale value is specific to the 2024 model year. For more information, visit Kelley blue book's kbb.com. Kelly Blue Book is a registered trademark of Kelley Blue Book Co Inc. Toyota, let's go places.

Stew Redwine (16:49):
Okay, that was a 60 and you know for me that felt like a 60 felt like maybe more than a 60. What do you say Oscar?

Oskar Serrander (16:56):
I agree with that. It was a lot there wasn't it? I feel to Toyota try to cram in a lot of copy in that 60 seconds when they could have kind of paced themselves and maybe honed in on one message to really land that I feel a little overwhelmed. My hair was blown back a little bit and I have long hair so it kind of stands out. <laugh>, I think you know what they went wrong here is just that they have an opportunity and this is what we see a lot, right? Let's create a spot. We need a spot for our ad campaign. It's gonna run on podcasts and music streaming. Alright, says agency. They're gonna start producing this ad. This goes into a long email chain of approval flows, right? Everyone comments on it. And this is a result of that process in my opinion. If I were Toyota and I'd use something like Wonder Craft perhaps. Or if I have a studio where I can record a bunch of different ads at the same time, start testing out different copy, different messaging and just kind of own the space a little bit or give it a little space to breathe in the execution. I'm gonna give this a 35%,

Stew Redwine (17:52):
35% <laugh>. Okay? Wow. While it did score lower in audio lytics than the other one. So that's where we're in line with each other. It did not get so severely punished as you did. So it came in just a one percentage point lower at 71% because the thing is it had a lot of information and that is the thing as a user primarily of audio lytics. It's like, look, it's a helpful guidance tool like, and it's very text based and information based like does this include this information or not? Include this information. And it also gets increasingly difficult. The thing that's different with audio lytics than like the Oscar Xander scale that we're making up today together is it's also weighted so that it gets increasingly difficult to earn even 1%. So that's another aspect of it. Like one, the target is 90, not a hundred percent.

(18:42):
And then two, as you move up the scale it gets harder and harder and harder. So all that to say we're hanging together. Like yeah, it had a lot of information but it left a lot to be desired. And I also wanna point out that it's like some of the detractors of something like Wonder Craft ar basically like, oh it takes away the creativity and it's just a voice and it's not gonna be what all that could be done creatively. And it's like, hey, take a listen to the market. We just listened to two spots that were a single voice. Each one had music, one didn't. So you know, it's like, I know I'm kind of making a little bit of a double-sided point there, but that's okay. I am used to it. I'm in creative. But it's like, look, if this is currently where the bar's at 60%, 70%, 35%, you know, whatever, you know, we're down here, see students are failing and the current complexity of our creative is a single voice in one song, then it's like this is absolutely making the case for something like Wonder Craft to deliver this kind of stuff.

(19:38):
But the truth is, I think not only can it deliver this, it can even liberate you to go beyond this.

Oskar Serrander (19:44):
Yeah, no, no, I couldn't agree more. It's kind of what I alluded to as well. I think this is usually what happens with audio advertising. I don't know how many variations Toyota is running for for this campaign, but I think giving, you know, with a tool like Wonder Craft or even if you start the process, you know independent what tool you're using, it's really about what you're creating, right? So if you are creating different variations, you're trying to figure out if this is a voice that you want to use for a certain target group or you want different music, I mean just be able to create a lot more variations is so easy now. And I can tell you this might as well be in a voice on Wonder Craft, right? I mean it's so easy to make it exact same quality of read with AI tools like Wonder Craft.

(20:24):
So you don't really, you have an unlimited creativity box to play in. And that's really where we're coming from here Stu. What I said earlier and when we started talking is that having audio earlier in the process to even start drafting out what could a great voiceover be for the video, right? Or how can we use that to create fantastic copy for podcasting, for music, streaming for radio, which are three very different channels, right? I think this ad would probably work, they're probably running this on radio at least music streaming for podcasting. I would deem this a ad that is quite easily skippable. Maybe I'm saying that also because it's 5:00 PM in the afternoon and it was a 60 seconds with a lot of information. You know that matters too. But I think the point here is that AI tools and the nice companies you mentioned before and Wonder Craft, what we're trying to do, I'm assuming they're trying to do something similar, is to really get more creativity in the flow.

(21:14):
And it's really not about the technology, it's really about the ad copy and making that come alive in a way that doesn't just kill the creative process, right? Because you start out with a copy like this, you send it to the production studio and they get the talent and they get a lot of that, the process going, it's easy that it just ends up with this one spot to rule them all to run on radio and podcasting and Spotify or Amazon, wherever you're running it. And I think we can go beyond that now other digital channels aren't doing that anymore. You customize the content for the audience on Metas platforms or Google's platforms, right? Audio should really do the same in my opinion. And I think that's better for the brand, it's better for the creators and certainly better for the listener as well to get ads that they can relate to.

Stew Redwine (21:58):
Exactly. And that's one of the things I love depicted in the video was like the transcreation of showing the spot in America and then it's in Australia and then it's in France. Like it's liberating. These tools are powerful and then it's like, okay, so now how can I use this powerful tool to be more creative? And let's see, we don't know if what tools they're using doesn't matter, but let's take a listen to the next advertiser. This one is from Amazon's Whole Foods

Whole Foods Market Ad Announcer Voice (22:23):
You can save every day by shopping at Whole Foods Market. Seriously, don't just go for the big sales. They have literally thousands of low price goods with their house brand 365 by Whole Foods market wallet at happy prices, limited time, seasonal flavors and all the quality you expect like no high fructose corn syrup or over 300 other ingredients banned from all the food they sell. There's so many ways to save at Whole Foods market now, you know?

Stew Redwine (22:52):
All right, so again, very simple single speaking voice you had identified on the last couple. It's like these are feeling like spots from radio or streaming that are just like getting ported over into podcast. You know, we're not hearing host reads, but this is what we've got. So these are the top spenders in podcasts for June. What do you have to say about this Whole Foods spot Oscar?

Oskar Serrander (23:11):
Yeah, so I think this is a good tone on the ad. I think this will work podcasting, probably music streaming as well, not too intrusive. I think that's important, especially in podcasting that you have that the right kind of tonality in podcast ads. I think I'm getting that right. I'm not the expert here. You are Stu. I'm trying not to embarrass myself and I hope I didn't offend Toyota and last one, whole Foods and Amazon, I think this has, I mean to me it kind of resonated, right? I think they're getting the message across that it's not only about the big sales, probably because people go hunting for those big sale days at Amazon. I feel like I'm understanding the concept here. Yes, they have great prices and on their own brand food items and some healthy aspects is there that you can expect. So I think this is pretty good. It's pretty short and sweet as well, which I appreciate. I think a lot of brands are not like Toyota did that mistake of kind of maybe they started at 30, it ended up with 60. I think trying to get it into a neat 30 is very much an art form. I think this ranks around the 70 mark, 70% on my score. Let's see how I did.

Stew Redwine (24:15):
Okay <laugh>, part of what's happening is you're scoring yourself against audio lytics.

Oskar Serrander (24:19):
I'm nervous now <laugh>.

Stew Redwine (24:20):
Okay, don't be nervous. So this one came in at a 74%. All right, so we're like Whole Foods is number one for both. Better Help is number two for both and Toyota's number three for both. Even though the scores are different, the rank is the same. And I think you're pointing something out this time. I have to say on this episode that's interesting because I've been kind of broad brushing, listening to the produced ads, which is what I would call this non hosts read ads in podcast. And I sort of haven't been paying close enough attention I suppose, like you're pointing something out to me where it's like, yeah it's really interesting the better Help one. And the Whole Foods one like the tone is very chill. Where a lot of radio, especially where almost half of the hour feels like is advertisements is like yell, yell, yell. I've gotta interrupt you. I've gotta grab your attention and keep your attention. Where podcasts we know is lean in, but I'm not gonna do Host Red. Well in that case then I need to do the most pleasant tone possible. And I really think that's interesting you're highlighting that in these top spenders from June.

Oskar Serrander (25:20):
Yeah, no I think that's important. I think you know, podcasting can certainly have a way more chill vibe in your ad read and these are produced spots or non hosts reads or whatever you wanna call them. You can allow us to do that in podcasting. I think for radio, yes you do need, you know, the one 800 number and go one 800 little bells and whistles in music streaming I think is more about the hook in the beginning to not have people kind of zone out. I see my daughter, I just upgraded her to premium. I'm embarrassed to say she had a a free Spotify account. I thought it was fun to get her reaction on ads <laugh> I guess. But I guess I can see her Sony out so quickly if it's not interesting. So I think those are what I see, the three different channels and how you approach creative for them

Stew Redwine (26:02):
And that's really important. That's part of the nuance of audio where you're saying, you know, it can be an afterthought. It's definitely more of obviously front of mind for you and I. But in general, like I like that you even mentioned this earlier where it's like there's different reasons why, you know like one for me is the experiential creative aspect of like that it's unseen and there's that whole thing and then there's also just like what percent is it even of somebody's advertising spend? Well you know, I mean your attention's gonna go where your investment level is, but it really does take expertise and nuance to go like, okay, where is this specific ad gonna show up And let me make sure that I'm doing everything that I can to contextualize it appropriately where it's gonna be showing up. And so for this last one, from an agency that always gives the maximum effort, let's listen to an ad for Mint Mobile.

Mint Mobile Ad | Ryan Reynolds (26:55):
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing.

Mint Mobile Ad | Reverse Auctioneer (27:06):
Mint mobile unlimited, premium wireless. Happy to get 30 30 bid to get 30 bid to get 20 20 20 bid. To get 2020 bid get 15 15, 15 15, just 15 bucks a month sold.

Mint Mobile Ad Announcer Voice (27:15):
Give it a try at mint mobile.com/switch. $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees promoting for new customers for limited time, unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month. Slows full turns@mintmobile.com.

Stew Redwine (27:26):
Okay, there we have it. Ryan Reynolds for Mint Mobile, that's the last one. What do you give this one?

Oskar Serrander (27:30):
I mean it's hard to beat Ryan Reynolds coming in here. I'm sure that's scored high on your ranking as well. I'm sure part of the scoring right is a Ryan Reynolds score. It's quite binary. Either you have him or you don't.

Stew Redwine (27:42):
Yes, that's actually the 72nd sub component is Ryan Reynolds.

Oskar Serrander (27:47):
Yeah, there you go. I knew it. Does your ad have Ryan Reynolds or not? I'd say that this is a pretty good ad and again we're listening here to an ad that they're running across probably radio, probably podcasting and well we know podcasting and then music streaming pretty sure on all of it. And I think it's hard to please all those three channels like we talked about before. But I think this strikes a balance fairly nicely because of Ryan Reynolds and that they lead with more comedy. I think the other examples that we listened to were pretty much straightforward, tell it like it is, this is what you get. There wasn't a lot of comedy aspects of it or anything other than just information to really get the hook in Pleasant read, et cetera. This you lead with Ryan Reynolds, you kind of want to listen up what he has to say.

(28:29):
You either guess it's Mint Mobile or it's a tequila brand. So you want to figure that out first. Then there's some other voices coming in there. Obviously the end of it is a bit daunting but at this point you're already listened to most of it. Yeah, I mean I, I think this kind of works. It's fairly short as well. So not reaching over to skip with a 32nd ad as much. So I, what could this be? I'd say this is fairly good. You get a good CTA there to just go and switch. I'm gonna say this is probably a 75 Feels efficient.

Stew Redwine (28:59):
Good. It's an Oscar Arounder 75, it's an audio lytic 79. Oh look at that. So we're right there. We ranked these in the exact same order. So it earned the highest score for a lot of the reasons that you're talking about. Yes, in substantiation having someone who is recognizable to the audience, which Ryan Reynolds, it's hard to get much more recognizable than that. It's also a very clean message and the use of the comedy makes a positioning point about their pricing. It makes a demonstration point about their pricing and like you said, it's a clean ad that is fun to listen to. And like you said, I mean it's like you hear Ryan Reynolds and you know you're in for something entertaining and that's something that there's been a lot of impressions and a lot of positive mental associations that let us know that that's what's coming.

(29:50):
And so yeah, that's what this is banking on and that's okay, that's how it works. I think it's really great that you're highlighting and pointing out that this does seem like one that would be applied across all different audio channels. But we've got four good examples here that when we look at these, what's interesting is here, none of these are host read, none of 'em include a personal endorsement 'cause they're not host read, they're all prerecorded spots and we've got 'em in the same order, descending order from Mint, mobile, whole Foods Better Help. And then Toyota. So here's my question Oscar, is there one of these better help Toyota or Whole Foods that you wanna put into Wonder Craft and create an optimized

Oskar Serrander (30:36):
Version? Oh I think it's definitely starting from the bottom up. I think the Toyota one needs to get in there, needs to go into the audio editor where it's all text-based. You can invite the wider Toyota team, invite the agency, you can start collaborating on the different copy variations and start testing out some concepts. That's what I would do because, 'cause there was a lot of things crammed in there. So I would kind of separate a few of the kind of takeaways and see if you can run a few different variations. I would definitely go for the Toyota one and I would have some great fun with that one.

Stew Redwine (31:05):
So looking at the ads, we've got 'em ranked here, Toyota's at the bottom, like take me through exactly how would you work on optimizing it in Wonder craft.ai and then we might have you do that and come back on the next episode and play the result.

Oskar Serrander (31:20):
I'm a person that sits in Nitpicks on copy for a while and I love that. I love like sinking my teeth into just a line and iterate it. What I love with Wonder Craft is I can do that many different variations. I can add, you know, Alfred, which is a deep British voice, or I can turn him Australian and see if that works. I can start testing out some concepts. 'cause for me, copywriting, and you probably agree with this too, it'd be interesting to hear your take. It's like writing for audio is different than writing for other things, writing for articles, et cetera. Writing for audio is a different thing and I think we're making it really available to you to sound it out. Not only in your own voice but in other voices. I would say like with a Toyota one, I could even pop it into our, we have an AI assistant Wonder Craft.

(32:01):
You don't have to use it, you can just start writing or copy paste your copy that you already have and start writing. It's a great text editor, but you can also get some help when you get stuck, you can ask AI to make a variation of it. So what I could do here is pop in the Toyota copy and I can ask our assistant to kind of create a few variations and I can start there. It gives me a little bit of a start. And this is generally how we view generative AI now. It's a great helping tool to get me started, kind of get the ball rolling if you will so you have some momentum behind it instead of just staring at a blank sheet of paper and trying to come up with it yourself. Especially in the late afternoon when you haven't had lunch.

(32:34):
It's a great idea to do that. So I would do that, I would pop it in, get a couple of variations and then I would sit and the art of copywriting, 'cause I think it's a beautiful art and I would come up with three different variations for Toyota that lifts out three different aspects of that ad we heard with the same call to action. I think it was going to a certain website where all the deals were available and I'd try to drive the copy into that action. And I would say for me after, you know, 20 minutes, 15 minutes, I had drafts that I can send. And this is a use case that I really like now with the teams and enterprises that we have up and running in brands. But a lot of sales teams are using Run Craft and what I like with creative teams at media companies with the use cases they're using it for is that they can start creating a couple of drafts for Toyota, listen to it, to just get the ball rolling and then get a conversation going with a partner or the agency to really see what they think is a good idea and they can, you can collaborate on it.

(33:25):
And I think that's a good way to run a creative process, not in isolation, but in collaboration.

Stew Redwine (33:30):
I love that it's not just about efficiency. It's like no, I want to take the time when like my blood sugar's at a good level and I have this tool that allows me to iterate on it and get some examples together that I can share with the team. I think that's awesome. I would love you guys to take a stab at it and then once you've done that, we'll play the result back on the next episode of Ad Infinitum. How's that sound to you?

Oskar Serrander (33:50):
That sounds great Stu. I would love to do that. Let me time cap myself. I'll put a timer on for 10 minutes and then see what we can do.

Stew Redwine (33:56):
That sounds awesome. I can't wait to hear the results. So wrapping it up here, listening to those four ads and giving the different scores, just for the chief audio officers that are listening for all four of 'em, and I did this on the last episode, I'll just do it again, kind of lumping 'em all together because all the scores are basically right in there together. All four of 'em would benefit from more data-driven elements like whether through the use of statistics or testimonials, I mean more facts and figures or even endorsements. Yes, we have Ryan Reynolds in the one, but if you're not going to have the host read the ad and give a personal endorsement, then leverage something else to make up for that gap in trust boosting, right? So that's one. And most of 'em under utilize the power of scarcity, which can be pumped up just scarcity and urgency.

(34:38):
Like why should the listener act right now? And that doesn't always have to be some huge discount or you know, a huge discount with a specific deadline though that works really well. There's other things which is, you know, compounding pain or lost opportunity. Why do I need to do this right now? Especially when you're testing in audio that is so critical. If your campaign is only gonna be on air, let's say you're doing a six week test or an eight week test and you don't build messaging that is aware of that fact, then the audience that you're trying to test, you don't give them any reason to take action within that period of time of your test, you're doing yourself a disservice. So that's really important. And then I think, you know, these are things that you'd mentioned as well, Oscar, and I think that Under Craft is a great tool to be able to allow for like what's the more creative experimentation that you could do to customize these messages.

(35:28):
They do all feel like they could be ported over. I will say I think better help in Whole Foods feel more intentionally designed for podcasts. And I think you would agree with me on that. While Toyota and Mint Mobile both felt more like one Trick ponies, we can't know that for certain, but that's an area where the ads could customize more to specific audiences, which is something that comes along with a host red ad that they're going to do the host reading, giving a personal endorsement. Okay, so if I'm not gonna do that, I've gotta make up for all the things that a host could do and do that actually in my produced audio. And I mean it's really about maximizing the effectiveness of the audio advertisement. What is the job that you've hired it to do and how are you using your tools to put out a creative message that is clear?

(36:17):
And when I say creative, what I mean is that it cuts through that, it gets attention that it connects. Those are the things you have to look at, listen to for the job that you've hired it to do is how do I know that I'm going to get their attention, that I'm going to connect with them emotionally, rationally, with a very clear message to get them to do the action that I need them to do in listening to this advertisement. So the areas for me, for the chief audio officers that are listening, I would say is look at boosting substantiation with facts and figures or some other kind of endorsement. If you don't have Ryan Reynolds look at your scarcity and your urgency, how can you get people to take action now and look at customizing the message to the audience as well. How about you Oscar? For the CAOs that are listening, what advice would you give them based on the ads that we just heard? You know, these are approximately $20 million in spend in the month of June on these advertisements. What advice would you give to the chief audio officers that are listening on how to execute their audio messages?

Oskar Serrander (37:16):
I think you covered a lot of great recommendations there, Stu. What I would say is my first recommendation would be to start earlier in the creative process, right before you're even thinking about audio or different channels. Think about audio already in that stage when you're thinking about the campaign. Secondly, collaboration. I think the best agencies, you guys and the best ad agencies in general collaborate a lot on the creative process, especially when we're talking about creator channels like podcasting can be. So I think that's an important one, but also do it internally with your team. I think it's great. autocraft makes that super easy to collaborate on copy and the end results. Thirdly, be brave and create variations of copy. Try different voices and definitely create different versions for radio, for podcasting and music streaming because they are quite different and you lose out on the efficiency of the campaign if you don't think that way, in my opinion. And if none of that is working, just call Ryan Reynolds

Stew Redwine (38:08):
There. That's the extra fourth bonus piece of advice.

Oskar Serrander (38:11):
That's it.

Stew Redwine (38:12):
<laugh>, this has been awesome. And while I set up the conversation with the bunch of words that are hard to pronounce, scrum x McKinna, it's funny that that's really not been any part of the conversation and that's a whole separate conversation. I think folks should listen to your podcast to listen and hear about. What we talk about at Oxford Road is augmented intelligence, but just the use of AI in creativity and how does it impact it. So that's really a plug for your show. So as well as your show, your podcast, Oscar, where can listeners go to learn more about you and Wonder craft.ai?

Oskar Serrander (38:46):
Thanks too. I wanna have you on my podcast. I mean, we're new at this. I feel like a fraud. I've been in audio for so long, I used to do student radio, this is too long ago to mention, but we're starting this up to have some fun with it and I'm meeting with some interesting folks around, you know, different aspects of creativity and technology. So it's fun. I'm definitely gonna send you a little invitation to come on. I'll be happy to have, you'd be honored to have you. Of course you can find me on LinkedIn. It's easiest Oscar with a k, surrender, S-C-R-R-A-N-D-E-R. I am the co-founder of Wonder Craft and you can find us@wondercraft.ai and we're around on the social platforms here and there as well. But those are easy touch points to check us out.

Stew Redwine (39:25):
So awesome. This was great talking with you. Looking forward to being on your show as well. I would love that. And thank you so much for making this an excellent episode of Ad Infinitum.

Oskar Serrander (39:37):
I had a blast too. This was great. It's a great podcast. I am uh, thrilled to follow it and have been for a while now since you introduced it to me. And yeah, thanks for having me.

Stew Redwine (39:46):
Well, you are most welcome and congrats again on launch day and for those CAOs that are listening, again, we'll close with Oscar's advice. Think audio early, such great advice, collaborate, whatever tools you're using, collaborate with the people that you're creating with. And be brave. Be bold. Be brave with the ideas. And to our listeners, remember, if you like what you heard today, show us some love with an honest five star review. And if there's an ad you can't get out of your head or some other aspect of audio advertising that you would like us to discuss, please let me know. It's stew@oxfordroad.com, that's STEW at O-X-F-O-R-D-R-O-A d.com. And until next time, remember to have fun making the ads work.